i have been to a couple of funerals recently (both of relatives who've never been jw's; however married to jw spouses) and have been appalled, absolutely appalled at how the wishes of the deceased have been ignored and horned in on by jw drivel/dogma.. .
the most recent funeral was for a relative who didn't even believe in god (was never a jw), but the jw spiel droned on for so long that the deceased's own "worldly" siblings were glancing at their watches in disbelief.
one of the siblings had a speech at the funeral ceremony, and was very touching and heartfelt in talking about the deceased's life, but then a jw relative had a speaking part too, and lost everyone from that point on.
I didn't know the KH and an elder would be made available for adults who weren't JW's, or that relitves ever had the chance to participate in anyway in a JW funeral? Seems odd.
I've always wondered what happens and who conducts a totally non-religious funeral? Do the funeral directors just throw the switch and everyone just goes on to the wake?
Max - who's a healthy 33
now here's a question this always bothered me.
using the example of the flood, jws were told that few would be saved at armegeddon.
also quoting jesus when he said that few are the ones finding the road to everlasting life.
Ahh...
The issue is the urgent need to remove the evil present regime along with it's (witting or unwitting) supporters and weapons (inc polution etc) of mass destruction that are ruining the earth. A decisive blow must be struck to remove the tyrant Satan and liberate those of human kind who are willing to receive that which is benificial to all humans of all cultures so they too can enjoy the fruits of freedom under the interim administration of Jesus.Then the liberated good people can grow and florish and determine their own path by the time they are ready to strike up their own direct relationship with God.
That some 'nice people' who were misled or ignorent may perish through their closeness to the regime is unfortunate, but that collateral damage is unavoidable and for the greater good of freedom from the horrors of the current system for the willing. The outcome is certain.
Well... it'd be somthing like that anyhow... I came to think that the JW's really were a very right-wing group in socio-political terms, and this scenario is one that makes sense to right-wing folk. Just like current events really...
Cheers, Max
as many of you know, ozzie likes a good red, as in shiraz!
each month we share experiences of the current tastings in the regular threads entitled "ozzie's wine of the month".
not always has the wine of the month made it to the most recommended list.
Had something from France recently - it tasted like mud (my wife says French always tastes bad).
Every bottle my (now ex-) wine club has sent in the last three shipments smelt like drain cleaner, so that's what I used it as. They would all have been bad in a cask, that they were in a bottle was shameful. All Australian (NSW and Vic) I'm sad to say. Even worse was that I directed my first shipment of the new wine club to the Bro-in-Laws where we were visiting at Xmas, but failed to switch it back before the next shipment :-( At least I'm popular with the in-laws....
But on a more cheery note, I picked up half a dozen Goundrey's Cabernet Merlot on favorable terms recently and, for a cheaper bottle, it's quite acceptable.
Cheers, Max
(Did you ever go to the winery the Sydney bethelites go to? It's about 15 minutes away from bethel, and you take your own bottles and fill them up from the barrel. It's on old Italian (I think) family and they have hundreds of varieties to choose from. Very cheap, discreet [depending what sort of bottle you take to fill] and a high alchohol content...)
Edited to add the bethel aside
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/interviews/khodada.html.
http://www.observer.co.uk/focus/story/0,6903,591439,00.html.
http://www.caabu.org/campaigns/iraqi-exiles-letter.html.
Softcocks
'My enemy's enemy is my friend', and Saddam, OBL and others have declared Jihad.
Saddam’s a bad Muslim and OBL would no doubt avoid him like a JW avoids an apostate, but can responsible leaders with the power to act really be asked to sit on their hands and rely on these sorts of maddies with this military capability staying apart?
Here is a clear and well-defined long-standing target that is relatively easily overcome in a unified action for a genuine improvement in security. Yet Russia, Germany, China, France and others are blocking action against this dangerous and tyrannical regime (odd group of countries to be doing ‘the right thing’ in restraining the ‘aggressive’ UK and US in the context of the last 100 years).
This group may be genuine or may just be fighting America, but they leave the non-Islamic world softcocked, weak and an easy target.
Max - who declines to celebrate religious freedom expressed by Jihad
since some consider the us to be the most dangerous rogue nation currently and others have stated we are little more than corrupt thugs, i find this article from the daily mirror to be quite intersting.. .
tony parsons - uk daily mirror september 11, 2002 no matter what your views on president bush's statement of upcoming war, this is from an english journalist, is very interesting.
no, do more than remember.
Hi Simon - War is a bad thing, and somthing I wish could be avoided. However not being willing to fight means those who are have a terrible advantage. I'm also glad there are people willing to stand up and object to their governments decisions, that's healthy - and somthing one couldn't do in Iraq.
But yes, I think a track record stands for somthing, but isn't enough to justify or condem current actions. Else Russia, China, France and Germany's conduct in the last century would have to be considered when reviewing their blocking of action against Saddam's Iraq.
"Officer ... I stopped at the last two red lights like I was supposed to ... I should be allowed to go through the third" Is that how it works?
I think it's more like Iraq saying, 'Officer, don't flash your lights at me you bastard! I'll sue you for harrasing me when all I do is run red lights...' and the Policeman being told to tear up the ticket by the Security Council coz Iraq's driving hasn't hurt anyone they know recently...
I'd disagree about them not taking territory though ... vast amounts of the world are now under their economic control (the real weapon of the 21st century).
I'm not sure that economic success can really be equated to military or direct political control... different beasts. If it is economic imperialism, then it's the most free and benevolent empire yet established. I don't think it is that, but if it is then I'll settle for it given the alternatives. But that's me.
Freedom sure aint free.
And thanks for the forum...
Max
since some consider the us to be the most dangerous rogue nation currently and others have stated we are little more than corrupt thugs, i find this article from the daily mirror to be quite intersting.. .
tony parsons - uk daily mirror september 11, 2002 no matter what your views on president bush's statement of upcoming war, this is from an english journalist, is very interesting.
no, do more than remember.
My personal epiphany on this came a few weeks ago at JFK’s grave.
I stood there looking down to the memorials for President’s Lincoln and Washington with my back to Robert E Lee’s previous home.
I realised that America really does truly believe itself to be the protector and maintainer of the world’s freedom, and the record’s of Lincoln and Washington and the price extracted from Lee and the slave states demonstrates that America started at home first. Thank God.
One JFK’s quotes inscribed on the wall is ‘Freedom is not free’. No, it’s not.
The price to be paid in the fight for freedom from attacks on any humans from religionists and tyrants who have dedicated themselves to Holy War against the secular liberal democracies is horrendous for all concerned.
But what else are self-respecting free nations to do? Applaud acts of religious freedom expressed by Jihad? Or are they to act against those who take freedom away?
While the action against Iraq may have troubling aspects (how can war not?), I’d just say that in my view the American republic is the single best thing to have happened to this world in the past 500 years.
Regards, Max
Australia
‘America liberated Europe twice in the 20 th Century, but took no more territory that it took to bury their dead’ Condelezza Rice, National Security Adviser to President Bush
that came for me when i was made aware of the deceit of the quotation
although i was brought up a dub i was not aware that until 1929 they were teaching jesus had returned in 1874. so how could they say
in chapter 131 page of the greatest man book:
I heard Carl Sagan talking about doomsday cults and how they explain why the world is still here after the nominated date. He gave some examples and then said that the most imginative was one group said that the world had in fact ended in 1935 (or 1914 or somthing) but no-one else had noticed!!! I wonder who that was... :-)
experts estimate that one person out of twenty possesses an unusual degree of extrasensory perception-esp or psi energy.
the following questions may determine your own psi potential:
1- is it unusual for you to be reduced to tears?
Four times this week I've had a strong feeling someone would return a call I'd placed some hours earlier. On three occasions they called within 15 seconds. I scored highly in the quiz. Mmmmm.... Max
mind game
this is strange...can you figure it out?
are you the 2% or 98% of the population?
I've got a Ardvark in Bolivia eating a Kiwi Fruit...
Max of the Divergent Class......or family or somthing...
"give god glory" is the theme for the 2003 conventions.......so who here is gonna be coming with me?.....form a queue now, i know there must be many here who want to attend.....if anyones going to twickenham in london, i can maybe help out with a lift in my car.
if you are and continue to remain apostate, i will just drop you off outside the convention grounds where you can continue to make that silly spectacle of yourselves with flipcharts etc...... this offer is open to all of course...
WHAT!!! No jamboree in Melbourne or Adelaide or Brisbane??? Umm... that's three of the four biggest cities in Australia! Some of them will have to travel a hell of a long way... Garwd... Fuck me... if I was in now, I'd have to travel about 1500 miles to Carins or 2000 miles to Perth!!
I'm so glad I'm way out of it...
